Sunday, April 22, 2007

My Views on Abortion

Updated with links at the end. Updated again with the birth of my son.

Abortion. There's a conversation stopper. While I've always been pro-choice (as far as I can remember), I was never particularly concerned with it as my primary issue. Part of that was because I never really thought (nor do I think) that Roe will ever be overturned. See this post for why. But beyond that, I'm a man. When asked about the issue, my flippant response was that I have decided that I, personally, will never have an abortion. Not exactly a huge committment, given that I can't get pregnant. But it also reflected (and reflects) my conviction that it is a personal choice.

Then I had to wrestle with this issue in my own life. My wife was pregnant. No, it wasn't unexpected. It was about as planned as it gets without using a fertility doctor, though thankfully, we did it the old fashioned way (much cheaper). Things were fine, until about six weeks in. Then she started to have some bleeding. Obviously, this is a great concern. We thought we lost the baby. So one trip to the emergency room later, we find out that no, the baby is fine. We even get an ultrasound, far earlier than you usually get one. There we can see this tiny creature with a tiny heartbeat. Unfortunately, the bleeding just continued, nonstop. For weeks. We were assured that this is common and that it would likely stop by week 10 or 11. Still, we weren't sure. And so we discussed possibly terminating the pregnancy, because it was very alarming for my wife, and also we didn't want to take this further only to find out it wasn't viable. Thankfully, we had such an option. We already had gone through the scare of wondering if we had already lost the baby.

A week passes. She gets another ultrasound. Things still look fine, but the bleeding continued. Then it got worse. Another trip to the ER. Again, they tell her, it is fine, but they told us we should come in if she soaks more than one pad with blood in an hour. So now we have a benchmark. Fortunately, things get better. Another week passes, they do another ultrasound. Things look great. I'm amazed at how much the little bugger has grown just in a few weeks, more than doubling in size. We're getting close to 10 weeks. Hopefully then, we're told, the amniotic sack will be big enough to exert enough pressure to stem the blood loss.

We were watching TV on the bed at home. Then she felt some pain. But she wasn't bleeding. She was cramping. It was very painful, but again, we checked, and there wasn't that much blood. So we did not go to the ER right then, they said one pad per hour. I called my sister, who suggested a hot bath to ease the cramp pain. And that did the trick. Then she started bleeding more. She panicked. She took off to the ER without even waiting for me to get dressed to go with her.
By the time I've joined her there, she is bleeding enough to go through one pad every 10 minutes. Then every five minutes. Her blood pressure is steadily dropping. The machine shows the numbers in orange. Then they are both in red. But all the ER people can do is basically watch her bleed. They don't want to do anything more because of the baby. They do start to give strong painkillers to my wife, but they only help a little. So we go for another ultrasound in the ER. I expected the worse. From the looks on the faces of the people, I could tell things weren't looking good, but they did not want to say anything. And yet, again, the little bugger is holding on and actually is fine even as its mother is bleeding out. So back we go to the ER room.

Now they want to see if she's dialated. I guess if she is, it is game over, but the ultrasound didn't show it and there's so much blood they simply can't see. Now the blood pressure numbers are even lower. I'm not a doctor, but I somehow don't think 60/40 is a good number to see on a blood pressure monitor, even for a moment. My wife is still awake, but a bit out of it from the drugs. They start pumping a transfusion into her, though it can't replace the blood at the rate she's going, or at least, it seems like that to me. We get a nice scare speech about the risks of transfusion. But its not like we can say no. She signs the consent form and they get in the first of two units of blood.

Finally, the ER OB comes in and starts talking to us about the possibility of losing the baby some more. Fortunately, we have already discussed this and thought about it, having already thought we lost the baby two or three times over the past few weeks. Still, it isn't pleasant to think about it.

Nothing is stopping the bleeding. There seems to be nothing they can do. They talk about trying some drugs, but then they decide things are going too fast to give time to let them work. So that leaves only surgery as a possibility. Surgery means hosing her out. It means killing the baby. So obviously, we look into other options. Only now, my wife is so out of it, from blood loss, from the painkillers, that the doctor said she is no longer able to legally consent. Now I'm handed a clipboard. On it is consent to basically give my wife an abortion and kill our future child. And it is all on me, my decision, mine alone. Something I never thought I'd ever face, ever have to deal with. Made worse by being a decision of either kill the baby or potentially watch both my wife and the baby die. The doctors did not say at this point that it was absolutely necessary. Maybe more blood could be transfused in. Maybe she wasn't dilated - they hadn't figured it out yet. Still too much blood. So then there I was, facing the sort of choice that you usually see only in hypotheticals in ethics and philosophy classes. Only it was real. It was my wife. And I didn't have exactly a lot of time to think about it. It was just me and the clipboard. An empty line there, marked for my signature. My wife bleeding right next to me. The ultrasound of my baby, and its heartbeat, fresh in my mind from minutes before. I cannot begin to describe how I felt at that moment. One cannot know until you are in it. I won't even try. I hope I never feel that way again.

As fate would have it, soon after that eternity of minutes, they finally managed to figure out, by touch alone, through all the blood, if she was dilated. She was. Just barely. That made the pregnancy an inevitable loss, they told me. I signed the consent and they took her up for what they said would be a 20 minute surgery. Even more ironically, they took us up to one of the pre-delivery rooms to prep her for the surgery. It turned out to be the very same room we were in before our first (and thus far only) child was born. Oh how the feelings were different this time around. Oh how those feelings were amplified and made worse by the memories of the last time I was in that room. And there they left me, where I waited for word.

I sat there, wondering if I'd at least get my wife back after this. Then 20 minutes passed, and nothing. Thirty minutes. Forty. Forty five. I started to get worried and thought all sorts of horrible things that I will not put words to. Mainly, then, I start to think about the abortion debate. About pro-lifers, in particular. I think about all those meddling politicians that would want to interject themselves into everything that just happened to me, interject themselves between me, my wife, and her doctors. And then I had a strong, visceral reaction. I wanted the mutherfuckers to die. I wanted to rip off their heads and tear out their hearts, because how DARE they play politics with my wife's life? The baby was fine until the end. I wondered if that would have meant they'd force us to let my wife bleed until almost death before they'd let us abort, because well, if she's not near death, then it is just a 'health' exception, and we can't have that! Fuck them. Fuck them all. They can fucking die, as far as I'm concerned. This was what went through my mind as I sat there, waiting to see if, after my baby died, my wife had died as well. I still feel that visceral reaction when I think about it, though not quite as strong - right then and there, if someone pro-life walked in and started talking about it to me, I very well might have physically attacked them. And I'm about as non-violent as one gets.

Finally, the doctors come out and tell me she's fine and headed to recovery. Again, she's in the same slot in recovery as she was after the birth of our daughter. I'm exhausted. It is now 1 am. She will be there overnight. I make sure she's ok and I head for home.

Obviously, I'm still pro-choice. And I do still say that I'll personally never have an abortion. But if anyone tells me politicians should meddle in what should be between one's doctor and one's self, I'll tell them, politely, to go fuck themselves, and then explain why.

In the weeks after this happened, I reflected on some other things as well. While I was upset at losing the little one that I saw on those ultrasounds, it did not feel even 1/100th of how I'd have felt if we'd lost my then 17 month old daughter. Not even close. We did not have a funeral. We did mourn, in a way, but nothing like you'd do with a baby who has been born. In short, just instinctively, we knew it was nothing like that. It was a seed of a person, but it really wasn't a person yet, not in our awareness. Nobody really treats a 9 week old fetus like that. Not even pro-lifers. More food for thought.

Anyway, I wonder sometimes if this is why I decided to actually make my own blog. Because I have things to say. I'm not sure if that is why, but the timing makes me wonder. This all happened very shortly before I made my blog here. So yes, it is still relatively fresh. It is still raw. I still have trouble thinking about it. I wanted to write about it, but just couldn't. I have mixed feelings about even posting this. But I think it will be cathartic. So here goes.

UPDATE: I posted a follow-up here and here. And I have some more recent, good news here and here. And now I have a short post on the one-year anniversary of this. And now my son has been born.

289 comments:

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Rainbow Girl said...

Wow, DBB, this was a riveting post. I can't imagine how difficult it was for you to have that decision placed in your hands unexpectedly. I am very glad your wife recovered.

Thank you for sharing your experience and providing a personal insight into what it is like to be faced with that decision, as so many women are. It is not very often that a man is in a position to choose and you seem to have a very profound understanding of why pro-choice women get so angry about the state getting between them and their bodies.

thinking girl said...

thank you for sharing DBB. I'm sorry for your loss. I'm glad your wife is OK.

I've always sort of thought that pro-lifer men were a strange and misguided lot who were just pissed off that the final ultimate decision whether or not to continue a pregnancy (usually) falls to the woman, leaving them out of the equation and with little control over the outcome, either way. (Of course, this is speculation.)

But I wonder how many would, when faced with a situation like the one you experienced, change their stance in order to save their wives. I'm sure some would choose to continue the pregnancy at any cost, but I'm equally sure some would choose to save their wives over their fetuses.

Kilgore Trout said...

Wow, just wow. I don't know what to say, thank you for sharing. I hope its ok if I link to this post. I've never heard such a personal story from a man's perspective before and I would like to be able to find this again. Thank you again, for that powerful and moving story.

hipparchia said...

wow.

like the others, i thank you for sharing this.

maja said...

So good to read about this from a man's point of view. Thank you so much for writing your story.

Michael Hussey said...

There are so many variables into why someone would have an abortion. To say it is a black and white issue is foolish.

The South Dakota law was vague in issues of the woman's life at risk. Someone in your wife's situation may not have had a choice if the South Dakota law was rartified. That is hardly pro-life.

Lindsay Beyerstein said...

DBB, thanks so much.

It's so important for abortion decisions to be made among the principles involved (patients, partners, doctors)--and not by legislators and judges.

(Sorry if this post is a duplicate.)

Rach said...

thank you for sharing this from a different perspective from the one we read about daily. I'm glad that your wife recovered and sorry for your loss.

DBB said...

Thanks for the comments in support. It was something I just had to share or at least get out. I've talked about it some with my wife, of course, but really I think we try not to talk about it or think about it - I don't think she wants to think about it. I know I have trouble with it. Then it is so recent.

RG: Thank you. Yes, I imagine that men don't have to face this like that very often, which makes it hard for men to understand how it feels to face that situation. As I said, I was already pro-choice before, but now thinking about the issue and pro-lifers makes me angry, even though I do intellectually understand their position.

TG: Thank you. I also could only speculate about why men are adamantly pro-life, though some I'm sure are that way out of a firm conviction that killing a fetus is murder, and it is hard not to at least understand that position. I think what they miss is that the mother is a life as well, and childbirth, even in the best of circumstances, always risks the life of the mother. And one should never FORCE someone to risk their life for someone else (by forcing a pregnancy). I was going to discuss that more in this post but then just could not write any more.

I would hope that anyone in that situation would not just sacrifice his wife. I know I could not.

KT: You're welcome. I don't mind if you link. If I didn't want anyone to see it, I wouldn't have posted it.

Hipparcha, maja, you're welcome as well.

MH: It does scare me to think that the law might have been such that I would have been forced to lose my wife or come very close. That is what really made me so angry. That and the idea that politicians would stick their nose in our private family crisis.

Lindsey, thank you. I agree. I don't want some politician overriding me, my wife, or our doctor. I'd rather just leave medicine to the professionals and the difficult decicions to those whom it directly affects.

I hope this does help show this issue is never black and white, and that where there are so many shades of gray, we are better off leaving the blunt instrument of criminal law far far away.

Anonymous said...

Your situation was extraordinary. I agree that politics should never play a part in these kinds of decisions. However, from a moral point of view, given that your situation was an exceptional one, I see your stance as both pro-life and pro-choice. Ironically, I see your decision as pro-life. You chose the life of your wife- the right choice in my view even though ideally I am pro-life. In my view, pro-choice to terminate a pregnacy is often abused- i.e. "I'm pregnant and don't want to deal with having a baby, caring for it or giving it up for adoption, so let's just have an abortion." That scenario is a far cry from the scenario you went through IMHO. -woodstock-

chickpea said...

DBB,

All I can say is wow. Like everyone else, I have to thank you for sharing such a personal experience. I can only imagine what it much have been like for yourself and your wife during this situation.

banzai said...

I used to think that as a man I had no "right" to have a position on abortion since, as you point out I could never become pregnant.

You show me I was wrong. Way wrong.

I'm sorry for your loss and thankful it wasn't worse. And thankful you shared your story.

Jenn said...

This is amazing and I'm so glad, like everyone else who has commented, to have a good example of a man's perspective on abortion that isn't based completely on speculation or religious rhetoric. It's important. And hard to find these days.

Ric said...

This is an excellent post. Thank you.

Erin said...

I am..was...a pro-lifer. If it means anything to you at all, I think you just single-handedly changed my mind.

Thanks.

e.

Jack Holcomb (jackandmel@socket.net) said...

Thanks for writing this. It resonates with me in about eight different ways.

Just yesterday I heard a report on NPR about a municipality in China that was forcing women to have abortions (despite a more general relaxation of the population control laws there). The story made me furious, and it reinforced that "pro-choice" means exactly what it says, and it ain't "pro-abortion." I cannot imagine a pro-choice person being anything other than furious about state-enforced abortions, because it's precisely the same issue as state-prohibited abortions. The state doesn't belong in this decision, in ANY regard. So your story resonates there and further illustrates that the personal is indeed political.

On an even more personal level, though, your narrative about standing outside the O.R. staring down the barrel of loss, wondering just how much and what kind of mourning is going to define the next few years of your life, really hit home to me. My wife wound up with HELLP syndrome toward the end of her second pregnancy--seizures and organ failure cascading into fetal distress and a brain hemhorrage for my wife. So we got the crash c-section, the emergency brain surgery, weeks of NICU time and months of recovery--but we also got a whole six-pack of miracles. I got the staring-into-the-abyss part, wondering how it would be to raise my four-year-old alone; I didn't have the impossible choices you had.

I feel like I should apologize for being a lucky bastard, but really I just want to tell you how much I admire you for making it to this end of things, and for writing this. Thank you.

hwong14 said...

That was a really amazing story to read. Thank you for sharing it, although I'm sorry you had to go through it. I just read something (sort of) similar in a recent issue of JAMA -- from a physician-husband's point of view. If you'd like, I can email you the pdf. Just click on my profile and there should be a link to my email address, and you can email me and let me know if you want it or not. Thank you again.

Mike Y said...

Thinking Girl:

"Pro-Life" men are not concerned with the health of their wives. You see, wives are just the vessels for their seed. If they must die to foster the seed, so be it.

Yes, I realize that's quite a bit of hyperbole, but that is where all of this stems from. The "conservative" view doesn't exactly hold women in high regard. Yes, there has been a lot of softening of that view, but fundamentally (hah) women aren't the deciders in their eyes.
As bad as that may be, I'm still stymied by the living paradoxes of women who hold those same views.

KC said...

Thanks for sharing DBB. We're in a similar situation with my sister whom I blogged about a few days ago. Glad to see your wife has recovered and hope everything goes well from now on.

Anonymous said...

The amount of mourning you do or don't do really has *nothing* to do with whether someone is a person or not.

And a baby dying to save your wife's life, when the baby was going to die anyway (or even if it wasn't but you *thought* it was) has *nothing* to do with abortion-on-demand.

Drunkencop said...

Anonymous -- are you blind? Reread the article and this time imagine what would have happened if the law prevented the doctors from intervening. Do you honestly not see what that kind of law would have done?

The Inoculated Mind said...

To Anonymous: you make it sound like abortion is something you get on tap, and all you need to do is put your cup underneath the spigot and fill er up? Abortion on Demand? Please.

Thank you for that wonderful post - it is nice to see another man's deep thoughts stemming from experience on this topic. It is a thorny issue, indeed, but the only people who need be involved in such a hairy decision were the people in that room. You, your wife, and the doctors. If pro-birthers really meant what they said, then they would never have their own children and just "Adopt" embryos.

The Inoculated Mind said...

I just realized that I implied that I had experience, which I don't. I meant instead, that it's nice to see another man's deep thoughts on this topic, especially stemming from experience.

Anonymous said...

I would imagine there are no laws compelling someone to continue to supply tissues or fluids to another person/thing.
So another way of looking at the abortion argument is to say - we're just going to cut the placenta connecting the foetus to the mother, if the state wants to step in an take over care of the foetus after that they're welcome (good luck to them)

Duncan said...

Anonymous:

"The amount of mourning you do or don't do really has *nothing* to do with whether someone is a person or not."

If by this you mean there's no implicit equation for loss, that's fair enough. But if you actually mean mourning has nothing to do with whether the dead was a person, you're talking out of your hat. Personhood is surely a crucial factor in mourning - it's not just the extinguishing of potential development we might cry for, but also the the loss of the actual person themselves. To lecture DBB on the relative values he places on the life of his healthy, growing toddler and that of his 9 week old unborn child is a bit off.

As for this fatuous aside:

"...or even if it wasn't but you *thought* it was..."

The foetus' health would have been something of a moot point if the mother had died.

Keith Sader said...

Thank you for posting this.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.

David D.G. said...

Having dealt with similar situations in my own marriage long ago (but not quite as knife-edged in terms of the pressure on me as what you faced), I find that you have done a fine job of capturing the issues and feelings I dealt with during those times -- and quite eloquently, I might add.

I am sorry for what you went through, and I am grateful for what you have done here in response, making a profound and practical statement on a highly charged and sometimes murky issue. I am sure you have done a service to many people who will read this, leaving them further educated and/or vindicated, according to their own experiences.

My thanks to Erin for pointing me toward this incredible blog entry, and my thanks to you for writing it. Take care.


~David D.G.

Anonymous said...

Thank you for posting this. I'm glad to hear your wife recovered allright, and I am deeply sorry for your loss. What you went through must have been excruciating, and it takes a great deal of strength to write about your experiences like this.

I wish more hardcore pro-lifers could read this and understand that those who are pro-choice aren't heartless baby-killers or godless fiends who don't care about life...nothing in this world exists in those kind of stark, mindless moral terms.

Stephanie said...

Erin...

First - Good Girl. You have proven yourself capable of thinking outside dogma.

I used to be pro-life myself, many years ago when I was very sheltered and naive. It never fails to amaze me that all it takes to change a mind is a story like this one. Taking the conflict down to the level of a single human experience makes it an experience we can all share. Anyone who truly values life must admit to valuing choice as well.

Welcome to the real world, Erin. Life is much more beautiful than dogma will allow.

Anonymous said...

This is of course a very gripping tale and exactly the reason everyone should stay the hell out of the operating room and let a woman & her doctor decide what is best for them. Without restrictions.

My brother & sister-in-law went through something very similar: after trying and trying to get pregnant they finally conceived twins. Everything was great UNTIL... well, you get the picture: around 6 months or so, one of the twins wasn't doing so well and it was determined things were headed in a bad direction fast and the only choice was to abort that one to save the other and even my sister-in-law. It was a terrible decision, but my neice is super cute and super loved.

The radical religious right in this country would have seen her jeopordized because they "believe" there is never a reason for an abortion. Even my fairly conservative father-in-law now gets that.

SaraS-P said...

Thank you for sharing this. This is exactly the reason we need to protect abortion rights. No one goes around saying, "I sure do love abortion!" Unfortunately, sometimes it is a difficult but best option.

Anonymous said...

it sounds like your wife has a dodgy twat

Aaron Kinney said...

Re: Anonymous,

The amount of mourning you do or don't do really has *nothing* to do with whether someone is a person or not.

Nor did the author claim that it did, but regardless, you totally missed the point.

Whether or not someone is a person does not overrule the other lives that could have been destroyed in this scenario. For example, the life of the mother, plus the life of the 17 month old daughter, and not to mention the life of a father.

Anonymous, do you know what its like to lose a spouse, or even worse, grow up without a mother?

This abortion saved at least 3 lives. Indeed, it saved an entire family.

And a baby dying to save your wife's life, when the baby was going to die anyway (or even if it wasn't but you *thought* it was) has *nothing* to do with abortion-on-demand.

Abortion on demand doesnt exist 9 weeks into a pregnancy. Additionally, your complaint doesnt apply here because they DIDNT know whether or not the baby was going to die until it was almost too late, and it just as easily could have been a situation where they wouldnt have known until it was too late. What would you say then, Anonymous? Would you let the mother bleed to death if it wasnt certain if the baby was ok or not?

These kinds of uncertainties over life and death situations happen all the time in hospitals.

Ever wonder why people who work in medicine tend to be more pro-choice than the general populace?

Get a clue! And while youre at it, why dont you go pray to your God and ask him to stop causing uncontrolled bleeding in so many pregnancies and trying to kill expectant mothers.

garth2 said...

thank you.

Shannon said...

I'm surprised you and your wife didn't decide to abort the fetus the minute you thought her health or life might be in danger. Imagine what your young daughter (you know, the one who is actually a living person) would have gone through if her mother had died or been permanently damaged in some way. You came very close to subjecting your daughter to this for the sake of a "seed" of a person.

It is easy to understand how badly you must have wanted this child, but certainly your wife's life is worth the trouble of "trying again" or even adopting if she were unable to have more children after this ordeal. If you disfavor adoption because the child wouldn't be "yours" then your reasons for having children in the first place are clearly very selfish. There is nothing wrong with healthy selfishness, but how can such a person be prepared for the position of being a parent, a position in which your life and happiness mean nothing compared to those of your child?

If I were your daughter, I would be disappointed in both you and your wife for behaving so irresponsibly. If I were your wife, I would divorce you for having such trouble coming to a simple and rational decision in the best interests of your spouse and daughter.

Lauren said...

Shannon, I bled my entire pregnancy. Some days I bled MUCH more than one pad an hour.

At 23 weeks my water broke and I was hopsitalized for 7 weeks.

At the end my son was born at 31 weeks and is now a happy, healthy 2 year old.

I'm sorry that you feel that it is "irreponsible" to fight for the life of your child.

Anonymous said...

I've been there. Not exactly in your shoes, but I lost a little one by no course of my own. My doctor made a misdiagnosis causing it to be aborted. We couldn't sue the hospital (they are federally funded) or charge them with murder, but had I given birth, the child would have been distrastrously malformed, retarded, unable to walk, see or eat on its own. A single mom doesn't make the kind of money to care for a child like that, and the government (and the doctor) would be no help either.
People who haven't been in our shoes have no right to make that decision for us. For me, my God already decided what needed to happen. I'm feel for your sorrow.

JayMill said...

Well, I personally am pro-life. However, I cannot, nor will I ever, nor will the catholic church (at least the catechism, and the pope's official opinion), say that I disagree with your decision. Here is the truth that many people don't believe, in a situation where the mother's life is in danger, as your wife's obviously was, an abortion is not a sin or a murder, its to save a life. Most people look at pro-life people and say, "they would have wanted to have the baby and the mother to die." Sorry pro-choice people, its BS. There are some people, some ignorant politicians who have their heads up their asses who may say that, but for the rest of us, its simply not true.


And before anybody says "if you were in their place...", the argument I've heard 10,000 times, I have been in that place, I used to be pro-choice, I made a decision that I regret to this day, and still think about. I got my girlfriend at the time pregnant, and live with the fact that we both, together decided what to do, and did it. Would I change what I did that day? I don't know, but I wouldn't make the same choice again.

Anonymous said...

This is a great post. Thank you for writing it.

My wife and I were, knock on wood, never in a predicament quite like this one... but, it seems to me that any parents who have gone through a miscarriage, as we have, can no longer have a simplistic, black and white view of abortion.

We're also a mixed-faith couple -- she's a devout Catholic, I'm a sort of mongrel Protestant/agnostic. She has made it very clear to me that if it came down to an actual, literal choice, between who to save -- her or one of her children -- that she would want to die to save her children -- or, to put it another way, she would not want one of her children to die to save _her_. But at ten weeks into pregnancy, it sounds like this was not literally the scenario you faced. I'm glad it wasn't and I'm glad your wife was able to recover!

Anonymous said...

Shannon,
I was in a (potentially) similar but not identical situation to the blogger's wife. My husband did want me to abort because he didn't want to risk any danger to my life. I disagreed. And he felt terrible that I was the one bearing the risk- he would definitely have felt guilty if something had happened to me. It should go without saying that we would both have felt terrible if something had happened to the baby. People make different decisions and assume different levels of risk. That's why these decisions should be left to the parents and doctors. Nobody had the right to make those decisions besides me, my doctors and my husband.

I was lucky that I didn't have to make any difficult decisions but it was a very scary few months. I also think that my inclinations would be different if I got pregnant again since I now have a responsibility to my daughter as well my (previously) existing responsibility to my husband.

My sympathies to DBB.....

Anonymous said...

That takes a lot of guts, to write this story for literally hundreds of millions of people to see, especially about something that's as personal as anything could be in a marriage. It's one of the most wrenching and powerful things I think I've ever read - anywhere - about serious issues.

Thanks for this, and I will add it to my life's considerations of others' for their situation. The best thing of course is that your wife survived.

Anonymous said...

Reading what you had to say was very suspenseful and I can't imagine what you went through.
I don't even know what the right decision was, but the fact remains that abortion is age discrimination, murder is murder and abortion is too.

Ebonmuse said...

That was a powerful, moving story, and I don't mind admitting that my heart was in my throat the whole time I was reading it. I'm truly relieved that your wife made it through the ordeal. Nothing could be a better testimony of why the right to autonomy over one's own body is important.

I also have a comment for JayMill:

"Most people look at pro-life people and say, "they would have wanted to have the baby and the mother to die." Sorry pro-choice people, its BS. There are some people, some ignorant politicians who have their heads up their asses who may say that, but for the rest of us, its simply not true."

Please explain how you reconcile this statement with the Republican-dominated Congress passing, and the Republican-dominated Supreme Court upholding, a law that bans D&E abortions with no exception made for the health of the mother.

Tom said...

Where in Michigan are you at?

I'd like to work for a person like you-I worked for a worker's comp plaintiff attorney previously in Dearborn but since have moved onto Staples as the lawyer I worked for is in Alabama... If you're looking for a worker, I am a male college student that's interested in law, please email me: tewesley@umd.umich.edu

Anonymous said...

I am sorry for you pain and same for all others involved. As abortion is legal may I suggest it is not the cause of your pain? Coming to accept what did happen will be a long painful process and wish you the best on your travel through that process. I am glad you have a little one at home family is so important. Good Luck

I blog at forums.catholic.com as Texas Roofer if you wish to contact me or join the blog it is open to you and all. You may describe yourself the same there as you did here. We all wish you the best of luck in the future with your family

Philip said...

I cannot begin to tell you that I understand what you went through or how hard it must have been or that I fell your pain. But it still does not convince me that it is my choice whether or not to go through with a pregnancy. I believe in choice also. It is your choice to have sex and create a baby. After that, it is in God's hands which are much bigger than mine and he is much more capable than I.

However, this doesn't really pertain to you as you planned on having the child and had complications. I wish this had not happened to you. But wouldn't you agree that your situation and even rape and incest account for little of the abortions being done today. Most are due to irresponsible parents and people who were unable to control their hormones and then become scared when life bites them in the butt.

I can't say what it was like in your situation, but I disagree with any abortion that is done just because you don't want the baby. That was your decision to make before having sex, not after. But in your case, man, I really am sorry and I wish the best to you and yours. And I don't know what religious persuasion to adhere to, if any, but I believe that one day you will see children that have been lost if your soul is prepared to be where their's is. And that is a matter between you and the creator of that child, God. Bless you.

Keanus said...

DBB, thank you for describing your experience. I cannot imagine how I could have coped, were my wife to have ever found herself in a similar situation. While no means common, similar experiences are surely a daily occurrence somewhere in America. Let's be grateful that so far selectively ambitious politicians—mostly white males—have yet to succeed in placing themselves in the ER as judge and jury.

Your situation was early enough that an intact dilation and extraction would not have even been considered so last week's Supreme Court decisioni would not apply. But when the "Partial Birth Abortion" act (the one that the Supreme Court just upheld) was taking shape in Congress back in 2003, the Republicans, then in control of both houses, only called witnesses who had no experience with problem pregnancies. Of those who testified in the hearings only one was an ob/gyn and he (not the gender) had done one intact dilation and extraction (or so I understand). The others, who provided "expert" testimony to the absence of necessity for intact D & E as an option were not even ob/gyn's and had neither performed nor seen an abortion. Such was the informed views of our lawmakers and "experts" who gave us this law and the basis for Justice Kennedy's decision. That is how bad laws get made, through willful ignorance.

We need stories like yours to be told far and wide. People need to know the nigh impossible choice that you faced and that interjecting politicians into the ER is no solution. They are neither informed nor prudent when it comes to medical decisions and should be kept as far away from them as possible. Interestingly every country in Europe has a much lower abortion rate than we have, primarily because comprehensive sex education is widespread and politicians are not permitted to interject political judgement into medical decisions. We could learn much from them.

I volunteer as an escort at a local Planned Parenthood clinic one morning a week. I do not initiate conversations with the patients nor those who accompany them (escorts do not chat with them about why they come, unless they initiate the conversation). But from the patients I've met and seen over the four years I've escorted (probably in excess 3500) and from the clinic's medical staff, only a very small fraction, less than two or three percent, seek an abortion for convenience. Most are clearly under great strain, although nothing like what you and your wife experienced. But sadly they all have to run the gauntlet of harassment from our protesters who seek to intimidate, frighten, impede, insult, misinform (lies are their vebal weapon of choice) and (in their words) counsel without the slightest regard for the patient's feelings. Politicians are no different. They should follow the lead of European parliaments and stay out of medical decisions.

Anonymous said...

"I blog at forums.catholic.com as Texas Roofer"


Just what we need... MORE GUILT.


Take your papal patriarchy and stick it in your ass.

hazmatix said...

I will go back to being Pro Choice, as soon as men have the equivalent right to say

"I respect your choice, Jane Breedbody, to have a child that may, or may not have come from a union of my sperm and your desired hatchling.I would choose differently if it were my body with the urgency to procreate,or if I had any rights here at all, other than to have closed my ears when you said, in the heat of passion"I can't have an orgasm unless you come in me,", and long after you assured me that you were on the pill,and pro abortion, just like I am; so, since you have decided you will keep the child, in direct disavowal of the hard fought Roe-v-Wade deicision, I opt out of paying the next eighteen years of child support/subsidized bad choice, for a child that I would abort."

I would then even actively work for Roe again, instead of eerily encouraging single teen moms,Catholics, and other women who want kids more than they want an adult relationship with a man, to have more useless, confused, half wanted American babies, and sending them to the christian clinics who talk them out of abortion.

Wally said...

Thanks so much for posting this. I hope I'm never faced with a choice like this. I hope no one in my family is ever faced with a choice like this.

But yes, I am relieved that, if a crisis were to arise, we would indeed have a choice.

JayMill said...

@ Ebonmuse

from the catholic catechism of the catholic church

2274 Since it must be treated from conception as a person, the embryo must be defended in its integrity, cared for, and healed, as far as possible, like any other human being.

Prenatal diagnosis is morally licit, "if it respects the life and integrity of the embryo and the human fetus and is directed toward its safe guarding or healing as an individual. . . . It is gravely opposed to the moral law when this is done with the thought of possibly inducing an abortion, depending upon the results: a diagnosis must not be the equivalent of a death sentence."



Read this carefully, it says that the abortion is allowed in s situation going towards the safeguarding/healing of an individual (his wife), and it is unfortunate, that there was no way to save both, as I imagine the writer would have wanted.

As for the the democrats, they (at least many of them, not all) are lumped in the group of "heads up their asses." I believe that while they preach the words they say, many would not have wanted both to die, to do so is foolishness and downright insane, IMO.

Anonymous said...

DBB, that was a moving post. While I cannot say that I have experienced the exact same choices or situations that you faced in this tale, I can say that I understand your thoughts.

I am firmly pro choice, for many reasons. One large one is that as you said, it is no ones business except for the people directly in that decision. Contrary to what the "pro-lifers" would have us believe, very few people make that kind of choice lightly. The small percentage of people who do choose an abortion lightly are just as personally selfish as the anti-choicers. It is their selfishness that attempts to control everyone else. As your story poignantly points out, it really isn't a "simple choice".

Christopher said...

DBB, please add my deep thanks to the pile, for sharing such a tale.

The proper role for government in this morass is to provide positive incentives for people to make good decisions. For example, adoption should be easy and cheap, medical care during pregnancy should be free. Whether such incentives come directly from gov't or indirectly, through insurance, I don't care. In the end abortion should not be a decision of convenience, but of medical necessity, as determined (as has been said) by the parents-to-be and their doctors. It's too complex a problem for black/white legalese.

JayMill said...

@ anonymous

I am pro-life, I never doubted that fact that its a hard decision, as I said before, my girlfriend had one when we decided it was the best choice, then read above also at my reply to someone else. No one said, other then the ignorant people (who are on both sides, lets be honest), that it was a light decision. What it comes down to is if you turned right or left at the end of that choice. Thats the separation, thats what makes this such a hard debate, because 90% of the struggle, until the choice is the same.

ellroon said...

Thank you for your story. I am glad your wife has recovered. You would be surprised to find out how many women have gone through this type of experience.
Politicians and intrusive religious fanatics do not belong anywhere near doctor/patient conferences.
You did the right thing.

Anonymous said...

First, thank you for sharing such a personal and traumatic experience. Abortion as a medical procedure is clearly necessary.

Second, legislating against abortion is shortsighted and counter-producive.

Third, Abortion is very common worldwide, and is primarily used as a form of birth control.
Only 5% of abortions are for medical reasons (mothers health, rape/incest, fetal abnormality).
There are 1.3 million abortions in the U.S. each year for 4 million live births. That's about 20% of non-miscarriage pregnancies, and about on-par for a developed nation.

Minority abortions are especially high, with black women more likely to have an abortion and hispanic women 2.5 times as likely.

My concern about abortion is from a socialogical perspective. Especially in the case of minorities, high abortion rates are a strong indicator of poverty and the dissintegration of marriages.

Abortion should be legal and available, but why is it so common? What are we doing as a country to solve the problems of poverty? Why do our social support systems like welfare punish those who are married?

Source:
http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/25s3099.html

Chris said...

Now I'm not going to just ignore how emotional the experience you just went through is. It's horrible and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

However, while I'm not sure where I stand on the whole abortion debate, please realize that most of the "pro-life" stance aren't opposed to abortion in matters of life-and-death (or rape). I can't imagine any (real) people who would disagree with the allowing you the decision you were handed.

I think the main stance is to stop teenagers from just haplessly aborting babies, which is a stark contrast to "planned child ends up costing mothers life." But then again, I can't speak for pro-lifers either. That'd just be my reasoning.

Anonymous said...

This is a very important post. Thanks for sharing something so emotional and important.

My take, though, is that your diminished attachment to the fetus would be similar to that of a four year old child who you didn't know died or was killed in an accident.

You comprehend the loss, but it's nowhere near the loss of a person with whom you've spent every waking and sleeping moment. No loss compared to a person who depends upon you for every one of their emptional and physical needs.

That's the difference.

Your post took a lot of courage. Thanks.